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Posted -: 23:23:30 quote: Originally posted by BoneDigger I have a line on an old Baldwin Ode banjo at a local dealer and I no nothing of these banjos. It played really well and seemed to be in good shape.
It was extremely LOUD. Anyway, I know nothing much about it. It had pretty good inlays and the peghead had a 'Baldwin' banner and said Ode below it. Are these generally pretty good? Todd Good grief -A Baldwin ODE? If you don't want it, send me a private message where it can be bought. Baldwins have been the 'go-to-banjo' for quite a few professional pickers back in the 70's/ 80's/ etc.
Baldwin Ode Banjo Serial Numbers
Posted -: 04:22:09 quote: Originally posted by BoneDigger I have a line on an old Baldwin Ode banjo at a local dealer and I no nothing of these banjos. It played really well and seemed to be in good shape.
It was extremely LOUD. Anyway, I know nothing much about it. It had pretty good inlays and the peghead had a 'Baldwin' banner and said Ode below it.
Are these generally pretty good? Todd I have owned a Baldwin ODE Style C since 1981 when I purchased it from Shade Tree Music in Southern California and still play it. I started on that banjo and have debated selling it before but always back out after taking it out of the case.
Posted -: 04:44:14 As you're learning, Baldwins/Odes are highy respected and very well-built banjos. They're also approaching a modest degree of collectability. Try to get a little more information about it - year (or serial number) and model number. Some photos would help. Mike Stanger here on the Hangout (Stanger is his handle) is one of our resident Ode experts and can give you a lot of information. My first banjo was an Ode 2SR - their entry level instrument, archtop with an aluminum rim.
It's quite good for that, and plays beautifully. With your description of 'nice inlays' I'm guessing you're looking at a model C or D, which had a wood rim and a cast tone ring. Posted -: 07:11:12 Bluegrass pickers liked the Baldwin/Ode Models C and D. Good flat head tone rings, nice walnut wood. Model C is nickel (maybe chrome?) plated with modest inlay pattern. Model D is gold plated, engraved, with big flashy floral inlays. These models are indeed heavy and loud.
You can see Bobby Thompson playing the Model D on the old Hee Haw shows. Fine bluegrass banjos, just be careful that you don't overpay. Shop around here on BHO, EBay, the on-line inventories of vintage dealers, and get a feel for the market pricing. Posted -: 11:12:04 I have a buddy that has had one for years. It id a cannon but has a slightly longer scale and the fingerboard is much thinner below the 5th fret than I am used to. Nothing wrong with them at all they are just different, and the are heavy and loud!
I think as well that they were probably better than most 70's Gibsons being made around then. The style c was the first professional banjo I ever had in my hands and that was the beginning of my long journey as a banjo player! Posted -: 01:45:17 Hi, Bonedigger. I think Baldwin/Odes are pretty good- I have a few of them.
You can see some pics on my home page. One big thing about the brand is it's consistency- all of them, from first to last, sound just as you described. There is no period when there were quality problems. Before Baldwin bought the Ode company, there were a lot of models, and Baldwin pared the line down to just 4.
The Odes went through a lot of evolution very fast, so there are a lot of variations, especially in the metal-rimmed banjo series. The wood-rimmed banjos changed very little, and almost all the changes were small cosmetic differences- the peghead shape, inlay size, etc. One thing about them is very few parts are interchangeable with Gibson or other brands.
This is especially true with the lags in the neck that connect to the Ode co-ordinator rods. If any of these parts are broken in the banjo you're looking at, it will be next to impossible to find replacements.
Everything on them was designed and almost completely built in-house. $1200 is about average for a Style C in good shape. The C has the same wood, and all parts that the D has. Only the inlays and peghead shape, and plating differ. They do feel different from a Gibson, and they have a tone quality all their own.
A lot of folks liked them when they were new, and still like them now. I've played them since 1964. Regards, stanger. Posted -: 15:10:35 Well, I went by today and looked at the Ode again. I had my own finger picks this time and had a chance to really look over it and see what it was made of.
It's a nice looking banjo and played well. There were some fixable issues with it (the head was way loose, it had a cheap Grover bridge that was sagging) but it was generally good shape. Unfortunately, the owner had decided he now wants $1300 instead of $1200. No negotiating.
It is definitely a Baldwin Ode C model. I am going to pass on this one. Posted -: 15:20:28 Here's an opportunity to engage the BHO Banjo Liberation Front. I count about 24 contributors to this threat. If everyone forked over about 55 bucks, we could take control of this banjo as a group, sort of an exercise in musical socialism. Eric could preside over the 'banjo commune' where such instruments would reside. Bill Rogers could handle the money; never a more honest man ever handled a banjo.
And we could implement a rotation of banjo resources, 'From Each According to Their Need, to Each According to their Musicality' or something like that. Lenin didn't sweat the details so I figure we, too, could make it up as we go along. Posted -: 21:52:51 quote: Originally posted by BoneDigger Well, I went by today and looked at the Ode again. I had my own finger picks this time and had a chance to really look over it and see what it was made of.
It's a nice looking banjo and played well. There were some fixable issues with it (the head was way loose, it had a cheap Grover bridge that was sagging) but it was generally good shape. Unfortunately, the owner had decided he now wants $1300 instead of $1200.
No negotiating. It is definitely a Baldwin Ode C model. I am going to pass on this one. Todd This is interesting.
Here's a guy who runs a shop, has a Baldin ODE C for sale, doesn't know jack about banjos/ doesn't care about banjos since the head was not taut/ loose tension hooks/ shop disinterest to make it 'saleable'/ no care provided to put the banjo in playable condintion -and yet: Suddenly he decides it's worth 100 bucks more than previously. What happened? Did he read this thread? It WOULD be nice to know if the Baldwin banner is made of metal, or MOP.
It WOULD be nice to know what the serial number on the inside is. It WOULD be nice to see some pictures of it too since (as Stanger said), that banjo is in the right price range. It would be neat if you were willing to go back to the shop to find out some more info on this ODE C, and then let us know here at the BHO.
Baldwin Ode 5 String Banjo
It's understandable if you don't want to, but my curiosity's up on this one. All Baldwin ODE's are good, and the older ones (early 70's) are especially desirable. Pre-war flatheads they're not. The C's and the D's have their own sound with a very solid following of banjo afficianadoes far and wide, because of how good each and every one sounds.
I'm reluctantly selling my 1972 Baldwin Ode Style D banjo. Baldwin and Ode on headstock. Serial number places it around 1972. Its in great condition with the exception of wear on some of the gold plating. This banjo is a hoss. Beautiful walnut neck and resonator veneer.
Scruggs tuners on 2 and 3. Powerful and crisp with very good note separation. Good intonation down the neck. You will not be disappointed. Formerly owned by Buddy Blackmon, noted banjo teacher, Nashville session musician, and associate of Bobby Thompson. I don't have documentation to support this, but its a fact.
Comes in a period hard shell case. Extras: I hate to ship a fine banjo so I won't. I'm willing to meet halfway though up to 150 miles. Drop patch l2 interlude top. Call or text 770-655-575 three Price: $1,800.00 USD Shipping: Prefer local transaction - will drive up to 150 miles Posted By: United States, Douglasville, GA, 30134 Condition of Banjo: Used - Very Good Condition Type: Brand: Ad Status: Expired, #44570 Item viewed 4083 times © 2017 BanjoBuyer.com. All rights reserved.
Here's a great sounding Baldwin Ode from the mid seventies. The Serial number on the label is: 11-75-02. These are great 'workhorse' banjos made in the USA. This banjo is walnut with an ebony fret board so it has plenty of 'cut' as is most associated with these banjos. At one time this banjo had a sliding 5th string capo and it has been removed and the holes repaired in the past as well. The banjo has a nice Fults 1934 tail piece installed.
Also installed are 5th string spikes at 7, 8, and 9th frets. The frets show a little wear and there are some marks on the reso (but not through the finish) as is typical with a 40+ year old banjo. The banjo ships in an older black Superior case.
I'll try to get a video up next week if it doesn't sell first. I can message a video over the phone in the meantime if you're interested. If you have questions about this banjo don't hesitate to ask. Message through Banjo Hangout or call/text 615-683-5840 Price: $999.00 USD Shipping: T.B.D. Possibly meet if reasonable driving distance. International as well.
Posted By: United States, Carthage, TN, 37151 Condition of Banjo: Used - Very Good Condition Type: Brand: Ad Status: Sold, #65468 Item viewed 2471 times © 2017 BanjoBuyer.com. All rights reserved.
An ODE A-style for sale by Campbell's Music Service. Dealer reiterates what I've heard, that ODE mandolins were made by Robt. Givens, or at least that he designed them. ODE was a banjo maker based in Boulder CO that manufactured a line of banjos with cast aluminum shells. I believe they sold ODE brand banjos through direct sale, and Muse brand through dealers. I still own a Muse Style 2 5-string I purchased at the Denver Folklore Center in 1965 with my US Army separation pay. At that point ODE was reorganizing or going out of business; I think someone else took over the nameplate, and that the mandolins were added during the '70's.
Some of the old ODE luthiers (does one call a banjo maker a 'luthier'? Guess so.) started up the Ome banjo company, still in Boulder I believe; they make some extremely fancy 5-string, tenor and plectrum banjos. Don't think the ODE mandolins were manufactured in great numbers, but if Givens had anything to do with their production, they're probably high-class instruments. The Stew-Mac 'kit' banjos use, or used, a cast aluminum shell based on the ODE design. However, the Stew-Macs have an integral cast aluminum arch-top tone ring, while the Muse I own has a separate brass arch-top tone ring - a higher-end design, IMHO. I pulled together some information on Bob Givens, just for my own use, and the following excerpt is a portion of that: While Givens was building mandolins in California, Chuck Ogsbury was making banjos in Colorado.
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Ode Banjo
But, by 1966, Ogsbury had sold his banjo company to Baldwin, the large company known primarily for pianos that also owned Gretsch instruments. As part of the sales contract, Ogsbury agreed not to build instruments for five years that would compete with the ones whose production Baldwin would be taking over. After the deal went through, Baldwin saw little reason to keep using the Ode name. Baldwin originally badged their instruments (primarily banjos) with their company name but discovered that it lacked the name recognition that Ode had acquired among banjo players. So, around 1971, they began double-naming instruments using both “Baldwin” and “Ode” designations. By 1977, they had switched to the Ode moniker exclusively. Baldwin farmed out the manufacture of their banjo components and legendary dobro flatpicker and luthier Tut Taylor, who was building banjos and resophonic guitars, was one of their contractors.
Givens, meanwhile, had left home and traveled east to Nashville; he and Tut became partners. They bought the old Grammar Guitar Company and began doing work for Baldwin, making instruments under the Ode name and also producing some instruments of their own. With Bob Givens available, it made sense for Baldwin to have him make some Ode mandolins, which they did. Okay, so, Tut Taylor and Bob Givens were building Ode instruments for the Gretsch Division of the Baldwin Music Co.
In the old Grammar Guitar factory. Company affiliations got pretty confusing and for some instruments it was hard to figure out exactly who had made them. For example, some mandolins bearing the Ode name on the headstock had Givens engraved on the tailpiece, and labels reading, THE GIVENS MANDOLIN Manufactured By TUT TAYLOR MUSIC, INC. Nashville, Tenn.-Distributed By Gretsch-Cincinnati, Ohio Clearly, R.
Givens was involved in making these instruments, but in his spare time, as I mentioned, he also was producing special-order, custom-made instruments bearing his own name. Meanwhile, in Colorado, Ogsbury’s non-competition agreement with Baldwin had expired in 1971 and he began to make banjos again, this time under the Ome name, as he no longer owned the rights to “Ode.” A few years after Ome’s start-up, the company followed Ode’s example and flirted with the idea of making mandolins. They hired a guy from Connecticut, name Mike Kemnitzer to design two mandolins, an A and an F, and to build a prototype of each. Back at Ome, the company wasn’t all that sure about the mandolin idea. Besides, Mike Kemnitzer had decided to produce his own mandolin line under the name, “Nugget.” Like the Givens mandolins, these soon became some of the most sought-after new instruments available.
As I said, I gathered this information for my own edification. I think it's reasonably accurate but can't be 100% sure that I have all the facts straight. I'd encourage others with more information to correct any errors. I think there were some unfinished Ode mandolin kits that floated around in the 1970s, too.Dunno if we're thinking about the same thing, but there used to always be a classified ad in the back of the old Pickin' magazine reading; 'Unfinished A model mandolins $150. Back in the seventies, a friend bought a bunch of 'em and I ended up with one.
Maple back and sides, wide grain spruce top, and (the strangest feature) an integral mahogany neck/neck block with the ribs 'let into' the block as is done in classical gtr construction. Not gonna happen on one of these! Mine came with just the yellow stain rubbed on.
I have played the sh#t outta this mandolin since then and it just won't quit! Cuts through in an acoustic session and mics up real well.
Best $150 mandolin I've ever played! I have seen a coupla OME or ODE mandolins that looked similar to mine, but have never come across another 'T.T. Unfinished A'. I wonder if the Baldwin mandolins have the same 'neck joint'? Mine has similar tone characteristics to some Givens A's I have played.
In article, (D.E.) wrote: Hi, Derek. I think this is a 1974 model.
Don't know for sure, but my guess is the standard head was a Weather King. My guess is that the banjo is probably domestic, but the company started importing around this time, more or less. I remember that they were still making them in the U.S.
In 1976, because they produced a limited edition Concertone that year. The domestic Fenders are very good- John Hartford played one in the early 70's, as did Butch Robbins and a bunch of other players. Although I prefer Ode banjos from the same period, the Fenders were on equal par with the Ode, and were better than almost all of the Gibsons and Vegas of the time. These days, one may be improved a little with one of the new high quality tone rings now available, but everything else on them is very high quality.
They are quite different in tone, action, and looks from the later Japanese (and then Korean) imports. The easiest way to tell the difference between the domestics and imports is the flange hole pattern. The domestic Fenders have a dot-dash pattern of holes (-o-o-), and the imports have holes that have the Gibson pattern. If you take the resonator off of a domestic, you will see that the flange is very, VERY, heavy brass that is singular to Fender. The flange takes a right turn downward and wraps around the rim.
This part of the flange is about an inch or more wide. The import flange is either Gibson style tube and plate.
Another quick identifier for the domestic Fenders is the wood used. The lower end models have blonde rock maple necks with a center strip of rosewood, and the top end have walnut necks with 3 center laminations. Resonators on the lower models are plain rock maple w/ a very Fender looking sunburst, and top end is walnut with checkerboard prufling rings. Regards, Stanger Mike Stanger 10:20. In article, (D.E.) wrote: Hi, Derek. Forgot to read your header closely. The Artist model was the 2nd from the top of the domestic line.
An excellent banjo of the 70's, and very close in appearance to their best, the Concertone. The biggest difference between the two was the Concertone had a slightly fancier inlay pattern on the peghead, and the peghead had a few more cuts in the shape.
The tailpiece on the Concertone was an Oettinger, and the Artist had the 70's adjustable Presto. The Concertone also had gold plating vs. Nickel on the Artist. Both played and sounded the same.
Regards, Stanger wygyg 19:23. Mike, Have you ever heard of banjo player Jimmy Arnold? He played a Fender Artist for some time. He and Butch Robins were friends and a guy liked there playing so much he give them each a fender banjo. If you can get a copy of Jimmy Arnolds album on rebel records-Strictly Arnold- you need to. Jimmy played the fender on that album. The man was an amazing banjo player his cut of charmaine is incredible.
Ive heard that Bela Fleck met him somewhere and said 'so you are the JIMMY ARNOLD!' Scott Vestal liked his playing as well. Jimmy was a musical genuis. Derek Alan Forrest 12:58. I'm really glad that this topic surfaced, since I am considering purchasing an early 1970s Fender Artist and have a few questions.
Having never had the opportunity to play one in person, I am really curious about the sound (tone, volume, etc) of this generation of Artists. Any suggestions about how they compare to other banjos on the market such as Gibson/Stelling/OME/Deering/Etc.? Can I expect a properly setup, prime example to hold its own against one of todays banjos?
What about the playability? I understand that many of the Fender Artists have slim necks and are quite comfortable to play, but that they tend to be on the heavy side due to the brass flange. I don't have a particular banjo in mind, so I am asking for general answers. I understand that, like any brand or model, there are some real winners and some real dogs. I am trying to find out if this is something that I may be interested in investigating further. Thanks very much for your help.Alan Forrest wygyg wrote: Mike.you gotta love those machines.
I wish I had mine back. Well.I guess I wish I had a bunch of them back.
And you are correct.beat the gibbys by a long shot in my opinion. So many banjos.so little time. Roger (seemingly the only damn banjo teacher in central illinois) Mike Stanger 05:39.
I have an old friend who bought one ca. 1970, and I played it often- even owned it for a brief time. He eventually got it back, and I haven't seen him or the banjo for years.
I ought to look him up and see if he wants to get rid of it again! Those California Fenders were kinda like pre-Stelling Stellings in some ways. Their necks are very Stelling like- rather wide, flat, and very fast action. Good tone, and I never saw one that wasn't very neatly done.
For a bunch of electric guitar makers, the Fender crew really produced a quality banjo for those few years. One interesting thing about them is the finish- it is some of the earliest use of catalyzed polyurethane I know of. This stuff is extremely durable and scratch resistant, but can be double hell to work on.
Fender adopted this stuff for their guitars around then, and I'm sure the banjos were finished on the guitar line. I've seen a few over the years with clouded resonators; this can be a problem with the material, as the finish's grip on the wood isn't very strong. Clouding occurs often when the finish develops a chip that goes down to wood and allows surrounding areas to loosen. But it's so tough that getting a chip that severe is rare. Regards, Stanger In article, Mike Stanger 05:52. As I mentioned, I always preferred the Ode's tone over the Fender's slightly, but they were quite close in most respects. I think the Ode's tone was slightly fuller and deeper, and the Fender had a less deep, but slightly crisper, tone.
I have neveer had a chance to play a Fender archtop, but sure would like to. I think they would be a very good banjo, but might be a little tricky to really dial in the killer tone.
Fenders seem to be like this- very slight adjustments to them result in big tonal/action changes. (just like several new makes today) Unlike the Odes, the top 2 models, the Artist and Concertone, were very close cosmetically. All of the Fenders had rosewood boards and Schaller tuners. They were heavy, indeed.
The flange contributed much of the weight, and it is incredibly sturdy and massive. Solid brass, too. The tone ring was much like others then- more brass, less bronze than most of the good ones today. I think that flange made a substantial contribution to the Fender's bright, crisp tone. Fender used wood purfling under the fingerboard binding and on the resonator rim and back, a la the RB4 and RB5, and most of the ones I've seen are a rather light colored walnut. I think that was the only wood used for them.
Another interesting thing is I think the parts were chrome plated, not nickel. I've neveer seen a Fender that has the common tarnishing of parts, but don't know for a fact that chrome was used. Regards, Stanger In article, JohnB58972 05:39.